Dział Zagraniczny, “Foreign Department” in Polish, is the eleventh most popular Polish podcast. Focusing on the very specific topics from the different parts of the world, it has stayed among the country’s top 20 most popular podcasts for recent couple years with over 100,000 regular listeners. Listening to it, you’ll know why thousands of greyhounds are abandoned in Spain or if the Philippines will be the last country in the world to legalise divorce.

The topics are selected in such a way that if you go abroad and chat with locals in the bar, you’ll be able to keep the conversation going by discussing very specific issues for that region. Although Dział Zagraniczny rarely covers politics, deeper research on current events outside of the Polish media mainstream could tell a lot about a country’s culture, history, social life and politics itself. For example, listening to the episode about bears in Slovakia, you’ll know more about the country’s environmental politics and process of suburbanisation.

Maciej Okraszewski, journalist and founder of Dział Zagraniczny, told The Fix how his project proves that Poles actually do care about deep-dive reports from around the world.

*Dział Zagraniczny* logo with the podcast’s motto “the Polish reader doesn’t care about it” (photo: screenshot from the main page)

From podcasting in the kitchen to 16,000 euros monthly on Patronite

Okraszewski, specialising in Ibero-American countries, reported on the ground for different media including Gazeta Wyborcza and Le Monde diplomatique, but has never got a full-time job in any newsroom over more than 20 years of journalistic career. He says the media preferred to keep him as a contributor writing on specific topics because it was cheaper.

In response to his pitches of foreign topics the journalist used to hear frequently “the Polish reader doesn’t care about it”. These words still sound in the country’s biggest editorial offices, due to belief that world news will not be read without a connection with Poland or hot political context. Okraszewski used the phrase as the motto of his blog Dział Zagraniczny founded in 2011.

Being burnt out from writing and disappointed with the lack of opportunities to find a permanent job, he started podcasting and launched an account on Patronite, Polish alternative to Patreon, in April 2019. No politics, deep research, clear structure of the narrative, specialists invited as guests for only face-to-face interviews characterises Dział Zagraniczny podcasts. Listeners in YouTube comments to the Dział Zagraniczny videos frequently appreciate the quality of the podcast, Okraszewski’s knowledge and the opportunity to travel to parts of the world very far from Poland.

The sudden increase in the popularity of the podcast coincided with the promotion of podcasts by Spotify in Poland and the outbreak of the pandemic in 2020. During the lockdown Okraszewski started recording solo episodes about Libero-American countries and Spain, and suddenly his monthly income from Patronite grew up to nearly 1,300 euro one year after the start of the project. Back then the situation in the Polish media market was highly unstable with mass layoffs and budget cuts due to the pandemic. Okraszewski says he received half of the fee for the text ordered by Gazeta Wyborcza without notice; stable support from nearly 300 patrons ensured the development of Dział Zagraniczny, he said in an interview with The Fix.

At the beginning, the journalist was entirely responsible for the production of the podcast, learning everything about recording and sound editing from YouTube tutorials. Now Okraszewski is supported by eight people who offer part-time services – a sound editor, three graphic designers, two social media designers, two editors, one graphic designer for maps, a director for audio reports and a recording manager. In addition, there is a network of external reporters and graphic designers for each episode.

*Maciej Okraszewski, journalist and founder of Dział Zagraniczny podcast (photo: courtesy of Dział Zagraniczny)*

As of April 2024 Dział Zagraniczny earns more than 16,000 euros monthly on donations from 3734 subscribers on Patronite. The average number of transfers allows us to assume that the most frequently chosen donation amount is 4.64 euros. At this third level of support, patrons of Dział Zagraniczny receive access to a closed Facebook group and a newsletter with the links to freely available articles, podcasts and films recommended by Okraszewski. In 2023 Dział Zagraniczny earned nearly 140,000 euros, according to the Patronite data from February 2024.

Stable support from patrons allows a journalist to hire new people for cooperation and pay higher than market compensation. In 2024 he plans to hire the first full-time employee – a journalist or someone for production work. “I always think in terms of gross amounts to provide a person with sufficient means to live in Warsaw. Therefore, I calculated that it must be at least PLN 10,000 gross [2324 euros] for the employee to have enough on hand, for example, to rent a studio apartment in Warsaw”, said Okraszewski in the conversation with The Fix. Realistically he has to have 3,500 euros in reserve per month to cover trips, equipment and raises for such a person, he adds.

The founder of Dział Zagraniczny pays 700 euro net for text reportage, and 2300 euros for audio format, which is very high for Poland. The total monthly salary of journalists in Poland is 1303 euros gross, according to the National Salary Research by Sedlak & Sedlak from 2023.

Okraszewski underlines that he always prefers to save money for the project, being aware that the level of patron support varies. That’s why he decided to cooperate with the Słucham agency, which connects top Polish podcasters with brands. So far, there have not been many collaborations because the clients wanted to interfere with the editorial content or represented industries that Okraszewski refuses to advertise, e.g. the fuel industry, medicinal products or life insurance. The journalist has strict rules for advertising cooperation and treats reader revenue as a priority, but ultimately in the future he plans to have a sponsor for each episode of reportage.

How Dział Zagraniczny proves that Polish media have missed a moment

In the end of 2023 Dział Zagraniczny announced a pause in publication of interview podcasts, focusing on 15-20 minutes solo reportages, half shorter than previous episodes.

The new format was positively received and contributed to another increase in subscriptions. This coincided with the publication of Okraszewski’s interview for another popular Polish podcaster Karol Paciorek. The video gained 155K views on the Imponderabilia YouTube channel, which has 400K followers. After this Dział Zagraniczny also recorded an increase in the number of patrons and according to data for January 2024, the number of patrons increased by 1024 vs. January 2023.

“Just when I started my blog, I heard this slogan [“the Polish reader doesn’t care about it”] in the Polityka editorial office. For now I have more listeners than this weekly has sales. There are over 100,000 people who regularly listen to this podcast and now watch the videos as well”, said founder of Dział Zagraniczny to The Fix.

Okraszewski underlines that compared to other online projects, Dział Zagraniczny is still a niche project. But this niche has so much space that he can pay higher salaries than the other publishers, can choose the topics he likes, cooperate with many professionals and even not be afraid to spend money on reportage that ends up not being published. And the number of listeners keeps on growing.

“My niche is addressed to people who are interested in this world. Still, if it is supported by 3,000 people, it is only 3% of the listeners. However, it allows me to work on my own. On the other hand I heard from managers and chief editors that no one was interested in [the work like I do]”, explained Okraszewski, remembering that back then it seemed like Polish online and print media were competing for TV station viewers, without precise editorial strategy.

In his opinion Dział Zagraniczny and other niche media projects show that people are actually interested in non-mainstream topics, in-depth content, and above all, creators can make a living from it. Polish traditional media simply slept through this moment, adds Okraszewski. However, he believes that in the long run lack of people with journalistic experience or those adhering to journalistic standards among opinion leaders may lead to a very wide scale of disinformation.

For 2024 Dział Zagraniczny plans to launch a new format and hire the first employee. However for its founder the highest priority is a return to production of reportages from the ground, including one from Latin America. Okraszewski sees reportage as the highest form of journalism and strives to transform the Dział Zagraniczny into a multi-channel medium whose journalists will continue reporting from around the world.

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